>> i think we need to ban gun laws that ban people from protecting themselves. all over europe there have been mass murders -- >> you're talking complete and utter -- >> people need to be able to defend themselves to the point of the crime and not for the police to come until after everybody's dead. >> what you said, mr. pratt, the gun deaths in australia and britain, they are 35 people killed a year. your country is 12,000. >> your murder rate is lower than ours, that is true. >> it's 35 against 12,000. >> your violent crime rate -- your violent crime rate is higher than ours, as is the violent crime rate in australia. america is not the wild west that you are depicting. we only have the problem in our cities and unhappily in our schools where people like you have been able to get laws put on the books that keep people from being able to defend themselves. i honestly don't understand why you would rather have people be victims of a crime than be able to defend themselves. it's incomprehensible. >> you're an unbelievably stupid man, aren't you? >> it seems to me